What Was it Like Being on Jonovision?

On December 17th, Josh Gilbert, HTP contributor and president of the Canadian Youth Rights Association (CYRA), appeared on the CBC's teen talkshow Jonovision. As some readers may recall, Josh's article in the last HTP discussed how society unfairly blames young people for its problems, and how young people are treated unfairly. "Adults believe that the behaviour of the young people in their community has gotten worse", Josh wrote. "They've reacted by encouraging and supporting the enactment of anti-youth laws... and even strip searching you illegally in your school."

Since then of course, events seem to have strangely mirrored Josh's words. About a month after the issue came out, the Supreme Court of Canada announced a ruling which gave teachers and school administrators the right to search student's without the need for "reasonable and probable grounds" or a warrant, thus denying high school students rights extended to all other Canadians. Then a few weeks later two school officials (a teacher and a vice principal) at a Windsor area high school caused a giant controversy when they administered strip searches to a group of grade nine boys in an effort to find $90 that had been reported as stolen. These two events were the focus of the Jonovision program on which Josh appeared, an experience which HTP discussed with him a few days after the show.

HTP: How did you get on Jonovision?

Josh Gilbert: On talk shows and news shows, there are usually at least several producers, called story producers, who concentrate entirely on preparing the story, guests, etc. Well, I got a call from one of the story producers. Apparently, they found out about CYRA through my web site. They interviewed me over the phone, which is standard for reporters to do before asking you to participate in a broadcast, and she asked me to come down to Toronto for the shoot. They paid for my transportation and for my one-night hotel stay, which I needed since the taping was at night.

HTP: Did you get much of a chance to talk to Jono himself, before or after the taping? Do you think that guy really knows what's going on?

JG: No, I didn't get a chance to talk to Jono other than during the shoot, which I found kind of strange. I've been on radio shows before, and usually I get to meet the host at least briefly before going on. I did get the impression that he knew and understood our topic though, which is not an impression I can say I get from every radio show host.

HTP: Do you think that's because in real life Jono thinks he's too good to talk to his guests when he's not on the air?

JG: Most hosts of shows seem to be stuck up to a certain extent, but I can't say that I really got that impression from Jono. The only reason we didn't get to talk to him when he wasn't on the air is because they tape two episode at a time, and our episode was the second and they were very pressed for time.

HTP: What about the Jonovision audience? Sometimes they seem to ask some pretty stupid questions. Do you think they really understood the issue?

JG: I got the impression that the audience was not only interested in the topic, but interested in knowing as much about it as they could. I think, given the opportunity, they would have stayed there until morning asking questions to the panel. And I felt that most of them got the message. I thought most of them were fun/funny, and yet at the same time serious and interested about the issue being discussed.

HTP: Had you ever watched Jonovision before?

JG: I must admit that I've never watched a full episode of Jonovision before. I've seen portions of different episodes, including some from when it was still a full hour. Some of their shows, like when they talk about serious issues, I like, some of them, like when they have "rotting cheese eating contests" or other such silly nonsense, I don't. I probably would watch the show more often, but I'm not usually home from work by 5 pm.

HTP: Did you get a chance to talk to the victim of the strip search incident who appeared on the show?

JG: Yes, I had a chance before the show to meet all of the other guests, including one of the victims of the strip search incident and his father. The father seemed calm, but the victim seemed nervous and fidgety. I think it's understandable that he not feel comfortable being there, considering what he went through. The incident must have been very traumatising and degrading to him. He had all the symptoms of someone who had just been sexually abused, which he was. I got the impression that it was his father who wanted him there.

HTP: Do you think that the punishment (ie suspension, demotion, transfer) of the two staff member who were involved in the strip search incident was adequate?

JG: Absolutely not. This is actually a point I tried to get across during the show, but there was no time. I can't tell you what the intent of the school officials actions were, but the actions themselves were a form of sexual abuse and a serious abuse of authority. The two staff members involved should not deal with students ever again. When it comes to the handling of young people, or even adults for that matter, we should not tolerate even one small lapse in judgement. One is too much. If this were a case of a university professor, or an employer, they would have been dismissed, no questions about it. The punishment was not nearly severe enough.

HTP: Its true that the school officials did abuse their authority, but why do you think that the students would even go along with the strip search? Do you think their behaviour is reflective of a school system that teaches children to unthinkingly follow authority?

JG: You seem to know my answers ahead of time and put them in your question. As a drop-out and unschooler myself, I have a strong dislike for the school system and the way it treats students. It seems to me to be more of a training ground for being a "good citizen" over actual education. Yes, the school system is authoritarian -- no one really disputes that -- and teaches students from a very young age to obey authority without asking questions. It does not teach children to grow up to be individuals, but rather compliant and conforming members of society. To paraphrase Pink Floyd, it teaches them to be only one brick in the wall. Older teenagers start to break away from authority and conformity, but most fourteen year olds -- the age of the students that were searched -- have not yet reached that stage.

HTP: Do you think there is any connection between the strip searches and the Supreme Court's ruling in favour of giving school officials more authority to conduct searches in schools?

JG: Absolutely. As you know from your experiences at the Woodlands, some teachers and school officials already believe that students are somehow less worthy of rights (ie free speech) than adults. I feel that the Supreme Court decision may have been an encouraging factor to the officials who decided to pursue the strip search -- especially if they didn't fully understand the ruling. They may have seen the decision as opening the door to abuse of their powers.

HTP: But don't you think that school officials need some ability to search students for weapons or drugs, in order to keep schools safe?

JG: As agents of the government, school officials should be subject to the same restrictions as any other agent of the government or police. That is to say they should be required to get a search warrant before most searches. As courts have allowed for police, if there are lives in danger, and if there is sufficiently probable cause, they should be able to immediately search without a search warrant. I'm not proposing any unreasonable or restrictive rules here, simply that teachers and school officials be held to the same standards as other government representatives. I'm only asking that students have the same rights as anyone else. That wouldn't endanger any lives. They can hold the student until they get a search warrant. If there is a serious danger in not searching them immediately, they can do so. I don't think we should expect teachers to be police officers. They're trained to and are supposed to teach. We should leave the policing to the police under the supervision of a judge.

HTP: Supreme Court ruling or not, searches are already pretty much the status quo for Canadian high schools. Do you think this ruling is really going to change things?

JG: School searches might already be the status quo, but I really have fears that it will get worse. School searches increased in size, frequency, and abuse of power after the U.S. Supreme Court made a similar ruling. There's no reason why it won't happen here too. As I said to the previous question, some school officials may take the ruling as a license to abuse their charges. I have some serious fears about what that means for the rights of students. I'm sure I'll be hearing about more and more of these types of incidents. I don't look forward to it.